What Does M Stand for in M16

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RED TAPE, WHITE LIES

What's the difference between MI5 and MI6? What happened to MI1 - MI4 and are there agencies with higher numbers (MI7, MI8, etc.)?

Matt Denham, Dorchester UK

I believe the difference is like the FBI and CIA in the USA - one is for domestic intelligence and one is for international intelligence. But I'm not sure which one is which. I also think that some of the other numbers may have been active in intelligence and of the like during the world wars.
Benjy Arnold, London UK

MI (Military Intelligence) had agencies numbered up to 19, but not all at the same time. Most were folded into MI5, MI6 or GCHQ after the war. I've found the following after a few web searches: MI1 (Codebreaking), MI2 (Russia and Scandinavia), MI3 (Eastern Europe), MI4 (Aerial Reconnaisance), MI8 (Military Communication Interception), MI9 (Undercover operations), MI10 (Weapons analysis) MI14 and MI15 (German specialists), MI19 (PoW debriefing), MI17 (Military Intelligence "Head Office"). Conspiracy theorists will have you believe that there is still a clandestine MI7 dealing with matters extraterrestrial.
Allan, Wimbledon UK

MI5 deals with threats inside the UK, and MI6 combats overseas threats, as anyone who has seen a recent James Bond film knows from the shots of MI6 headquarters at Vauxhall in London.
James, London UK

MI5 - Domestic intelligence, MI6 - foreign intelligence. Interestingly, that makes James Bond a member of MI6.
J R Scott, Aberdeen

MI5 is formally known as the Secret Service, and deals with matters internal, and MI6 should be known as the Secret Intelligence Sevice and deals with extrenal affairs.
JB, London

MI5 is the British security service while MI6 is the British foreign intelligence service. Crudely, MI6 are "our" spies while MI5 is there to catch "their" spies. It gets a little more complicated in that MI6 has its own "counter-intelligence" section. "MI5/MI6" were the original designations when both organisations came under the War Office, now the MOD - "MI" stands for military intelligence. Their official names (acquired in the 30s) are the Security Service (MI5) and SIS, the Secret Intelligence Service (MI6). The former is responsible to the Home Office and the latter to the Foreign Office.
John Burnes, Manchester Lancashire

MI5 investigates matters of national security in the UK (investigates terrorists, counterinsurgency, etc). Equivalent to the US National Security Agency (NSA). MI6 (now SIS) gathers intelligence pertenant to the UK's international affairs - spying on Iraq for example. Equivalent to the US's CIA (Central Intelligence Agency) NCIS (national criminal investigation squad) are top ranking police officers dealing with high profile crimes, and have little to do with intelligence, though often co-operate with intelligence agencies for practical reasons. Equivalent to FBI.
Anonymous,

Anonymous' contention that NCIS stands for National Criminal Investigation Squad is a load of old tosh. NCIS is the National Criminal Intelligence Service, and far from being merely "top ranking police officers dealing with high profile crimes" it busies itself with identifying new criminal trends, acting as a clearing house for information from police forces around the UK, and liaising with Interpol, Europol, and various intelligence service around the world.
Paul Bartholomew, Harrogate England

Also contrary to Anonymous' reply, MI5 is more equivalent to the US FBI. The UK equivalent of the NSA (National Security Agency) would be GCHQ.
David, Madrid Spain

According to an American PBS documentary on the Allied Prisoners of War held in Colditz Castle during the Second World War, MI9 existed primarily to aid the escape of British soldiers held captive. One of the principal techniques MI9 used was to mail contraband to prisoners hidden in Red Cross care parcels. German money was hidden inside a Monopoly board, and decks of playing cards were sent containing military-grade maps of Germany.
Christopher, Boston, Massachusetts USA

MI-8 was a cover name for S.O.E.--Special Operations Executive, the ad hoc covert ops and dirty tricks organization during WW2. See M.R.D. Foot's SOE, The Special Operations Executive 1940 - 1946. As mentioned above, MI-9 was the escape and evasion apparat. (Mr. Foot has apparently also written a book on that entity.)
John C.Watson, Amherst, MA U.S.A.

They're all coming to get me...
Bob, Exeter, UK

MI5 and MI6 were originally part of the Military Operations and numbered MO5 and MO6, lower numbers dealing with various administrative matters. They kept the same numbers when Military Intelligence was formed. I think that MI7 dealt with censorship.
Jim Gilbert, Santa Ynez California

Well here is the list I've managed to come up with from searching on the net, no clues for what MI12 or MI18 were/are though. MI1 Codebreaking, MI2 Russia and Scandinavia, MI3 Eastern Europe, Germany? MI4 Aerial Reconnaisance MI5 domestic intelligence MI6 foreign intelligence MI7 Propaganda MI8 Military Communication Interception, MI9 Undercover operations, /POW escape MI10 Weapons analysis MI11 Field security police MI12 ??? MI13 Reconnaissance MI14 and MI15 German specialists, Mi16 royal secret service MI17 Military Intelligence "Head Office". MI18 ??? MI19 PoW debriefing,
T Swindells, Hampshire

A full list of Miliary Intelligence (MI) Departments during world war 2 can be found on pages 147 and 148 of "Codebreaker in the Far East" by Alan Stripp, published in 1989 by Oxford University Press. This goes numerically up to MI19 plus MIL, MIR and MIX. The author says that the whole series has now been replaced anyway.
Alastair Thomson, Northampton, UK

MI1-director of military intelligence; also cryptography MI2-responsible for Russia and Scandinavia MI3-responsible for Germany and eastern Europe MI4-Aerial reconnaissance during world war two MI5-domestic intelligence and security MI6-foreign intelligence and security MI8-interception & interpretation of communications MI9-clandestine operations (escape and evasion) MI10-weapons and technical analysis MI11-field security police MI14-German specialists MI17-secretariat body for MI departments MI19-POW debriefing unit
Matt, Bracknell, Berkshire

Contrary to the above answers likening MI5 to the FBI, that's rubbish too. The FBI is not an intelligence service AT ALL. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the US Intelligence services and is simply the "Federal Bureau of Investigation". The FBI is a national and federally empowered police force - to investigate crime. They do NOT collect clandestine intelligence or have anything to do with the military. The NSA is the nearest equivalent to MI5 but GCHQ's role may well overlap in terms of jurisdiction. GCHQ collaborates with all the British intelligence services on a daily basis, both cross-checking information or providing useful intelligence for the MI community. GCHQ regularly recruit analysts, and have large teams who can understand and verify whether information is up to date, or translate documents and coded messages. GCHQ are experts on things like terrorist groups, and can almost immediately decide whether a groups' claim to an attack is genuine.
John, London

At which time we the british empire have been called upon to defend itself, its allies and dependancies it became nessacery to form a number of departments and agencies. Over the years these dapartments have served a number of different roles and purposes. in answer to the above question: MI1 Code breaking, MI2 Russia and Scandinavia, MI3 Easton Europe, MI4 Aerial Reconnaissance, MI5 Domestic Intelligence, now The Security Service, MI6 Foreign Intelligence, now the Secret Intelligence service, MI7 Propoganda and censorship, MI8 Signals Intelligence, MI9 Undercover operations supporting POW, MI10 Weapons and technical Analysis, MI11 Field Intelligence, MI12 Military Censorship, MI13 Remains Classified, MI14 German Intelligence, MI15 Aerial Photography, MI16 Scientific Intelligence, MI17 Secretarial section, MI18 Remains Classifed, MI19 Extraction of information from foreign POWs MI20 - MI25 remain Classified. It is important to also remember that most of these where small departments and at the end of world war 2 they were mostly all merged into MI5, MI6, GCHQ and other agencies. most british intelligence agencies still remain classified to the general public x the only reason this information has been released is that these agencies have all now terminated activity and new agencies have replaced them. Captain S.S DG of MI section 25
Captain S, England

I love these responses. I am watching a movie call MI-5. Excellent intelligence movie of our brothers over the Atlantic.
Jay Casiano, Albany, NY, USA

By-the-way: NCIS stands for National Criminal Investigative Service. NCIS is a team of federal law enforcement professionals dedicated to protecting the people, family, and assets of the US Navy and the Marine Corps worldwide.
Jay Casiano, Albany, NY, USA

The FBI does have a counter intelligence section and they work very closely with the CIA and other intelligence agencies in the US like the NIA (Naval Intelligence Agency) and DIA (Defense Intelligence Agency).
John Smith, Chicago, United States

Minus one.
Francisco Scaramanga, Secret Island, Carribean

To John C.Watson. Thanks for the info. Having lived and studied in Amherst, I'm wondering how you can possess such a deep and correct knowledge of matters military while in 'the valley', an area not exactly conducive, but rather hostile, to that region of scholarship. Hats off to you.
Tom Roberts, Tokyo, Japan

In the United States, NCIS is the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. We do not have an agency called the National Criminal Investigative Service, because we have many federal agencies that investigate crimes nationally. Some of these are the FBI, DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency, ATF (Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms), U. S. Postal Inspectors, and U. S. Marshal's Service. The Internal Revenue Service (IRS) has the Criminal Investigation Division to investigate tax fraud. Now included in the Department of Homeland Security (which was created in 2003) are these federal investigative agencies: CBP (U. S. Customs and Border Protection), ICE (U. S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement), U. S. Coast Guard, and U. S. Secret Service. The Transportation Security Administration also is within DHS. Finally, all federal agencies have Offices of Inspectors General (OIG) who have special agents with law enforcement responsibility and authority to investigate fraud, waste, and abuse within and against each agency. Law enforcement in the United States is very fragmented. There are many federal law enforcement agencies, each state has various investigative agencies (the number depends on the individual states), and of course every town and city has local police agencies. Every county in the U. S. has a sheriff's department to investigate crimes in the counties that are outside the jurisdiction of local police departments. Even many public school districts now have their own independent police departments and most colleges and universities of any size now have their own police departments. Altogether there are approximately 850,000 full-time law enforcement officers in the United States.
J. R. Price, Arlington, Texas

No wonder conspiracy theories etc abound - I simply went to the source www.mi5.gov.uk and there all is explained. I never really understood the expression 'get a life' but now browsing the responces to this query, it has relevance.
James, Newcastle upon Tyne UK

The binary distinction between MI5 and MI6 presented in some of the answers above is incorrect. As displayed on the MI6>FAQs and on the MI5 website>about us>myths sections, "SIS (MI6) collects secret intelligence overseas on behalf of the British Government. MI5, the Security Service, is the UK's security intelligence agency responsible for protecting the UK, its interests and citizens against major threats to national security." However, these 2 distinct roles entail actual operational overlap and thus "the scope of national security extends beyond the British Isles and may involve the protection of British interests worldwide, e.g. diplomatic premises and staff, British companies and investments and British citizens living or travelling abroad. Security threats to British interests anywhere in the world fall within the scope of our functions as set out in the Security Service Act 1989. In dealing with security threats overseas we co-operate closely with the Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) and Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ), who are responsible for gathering intelligence overseas, and with the Foreign and Commonwealth Office." Simples.
Vinesh Patel, London, England

For John in London: The FBI is in fact partly an inteligence service. FBI has jurisdiction within the continental US while CIA has responsibilities over seas, NSA has ability now to monitor communications both domestically and over seas. Like our UK Counter Parts they are unsung heroes, who allow us to keep our freedom!!
Jack Zalenski, Beverly, New Jersey, USA

Thanks for the info, guys.
Manaal Basit, Budgam, India

dosent matter casue the usa is the best! go seal teams
RYAN, rakin cille USA

"Question" I need to ask is: does anyone know if MI9 existing after WW2 in to the 50s & possibly 60s?My Canadian father was in R.C.A.F. Intelligence Services back then,served and married my mother in England in fifties,also served in France in fifties, I was told even though he was Canadian, he also worked for the British, is it possible that he could have worked for M19 after the War 2, I am trying to validate information I have been learning on him.Some older close associates have mentioned to me M19..He was recently killed while in Turks & Caicos Islands shot in isolated location, no weapon found or bullet or casing etc. Because of his past with the military, I am trying to connect some dots prior to and around the time of his death, local police kind, and still investigating, but not all are well educated,the Islands were bankrupt and political corruption caused The Queen to provide a temporary Governor till next elections: recently Britain has supplied T&C with additional police experts, investigations etc. I also read recently that there is an Interpol office located on the Islands as well. I am no expert in any of these matters..Just curious to see if there is any possible chance my father could have ever been linked with Britain's MI9, since his death people I'm connecting with are telling me he previously served with MI9: he was very brilliant and a serious intellectual.Advice would be appreciated.Thanking you for your assistance.
ann, toronto canada

Mmm some interesting answers!! You are right that MI originally stood for Military Intelligence (followed by Department 1, 2, 3 etc). The current Security Service and Secret Intelligence Service (SIS) are still sometimes referred to as MI5 and MI6 respectively, though technically they are no longer 'military' being staffed by civil servants. You can find out more about the MI5/MI6 designations on their websites www.MI5.gov.uk etc - it is not a secret!
GJB, Bishops Stortford UK

Mi5 is about affairs that happen on British soil. Mi5 is often referred to as security service or ss. On the other hand Mi6 deals with current affairs overseas and are often referred to as secret intelligence service or sis kind of like the FBI but the sis does not shed names or appearance of their agents.
Euan McMurtrie, Glasgow Scotland

Having spent 21 years finding out about Lockerbie, I have some familiarity with various US, UK and Iranian and other agencies. The CIA and MI5 cooperate closely, though MI5 tries to prevent some of the FBI's more absurd plot ideas, like attributing the destruction of Pan Am 103 to the Irish. MI6 looks down on the CIA as the johnny-come-lately with too much firepower, the child of SOE and OSS. The Agency will do wet jobs - it helped blow up Pan Am 103 - while the SIS does not kill people, and there is a rule to that effect. The CIA London officer attends the first half of the JSC meeting every week in London, and the feeling that the UK should always take its lead from the US often grates to the British horribly. GCHQ is the child of BP is still respected by the NSA. The NSC is despised by all, as simply being the porthole by which the White House tells the world how it wishes to see things. Everyone detests the DIA, and BAFTA are regarded as fools and buffoons. The US security estate is far bigger than the UK one, but slow, bureaucratic and always fighting the last war but one. No-one liked the French, DST and DGSE, the Russians are still feared and the Germans uncooperative.
Charles Norrie, London, UK

There are some very good answers here. However, I do believe that the most important department in British security has been overlooked. Not surprisingly it is only natural that, as all CI5 operations are very secretive and carried out by professionals, they are kept extremely quiet. George Cowley - Head of CI5
George Cowley, London, UK

During WWII MI-9 was the organisation responsible for establishing networks behind enemy lines that assisted POW's and downed airmen in escaping or evading capture.
Stuart Kohn, Maplewood, NJ US

Originally all MI, Military Intelligence was in one building. Each department had it's own 'Room'. The numbers following the letters MI refereed to room or door number.
Paladin, Moncton Canada

There seems to be so many acronyms for NCIS so I googled it NCIS Naval Criminal Investigative Service NCIS National Coroners Information System (Australia) NCIS Nebraska Career Information System NCIS National Crime Intelligence Service NCIS National Coalition of Independent Scholars NCIS National Crop Insurance Service (gathers crop-hail statistics) NCIS Nuclear Criticality Information System NCIS NATO Common Interoperability Standards NCIS Navy Cost Information System NCIS New Century Infusion Solutions (Brea, CA) NCIS Naval Criminal Intelligence Command NCIS NATO Common Interface Standard NCIS No Change in Status NCIS National Coordinated Industry Survey (Australia) NCIS National Crime Investigation Squad
jamo, Castletown Isle of Man

I think there all different
Tee, Nashville TN USA

Adding to Stu Kohan's answer, MI9 was also called "Escape and Evade," and the American MIS-X was modeled after the British MI9.
Bill Streifer, Inwood, NY USA

MI5 specializes in identifying and neutralizing domestic threats or security threats emanating from within UK while MI6 is tasked with combing and neutralizing external threats.
Wycliffe, Eldoret Kenya

MI1: Codes and cyphers. Later merged with other code-breaking agencies and became Government Code and Cypher School (now known as Government Communications Headquarters). MI2: Information on Middle and Far East, Scandinavia, USA, USSR, Central and South America. MI3: Information on Eastern Europe and the Baltic Provinces (plus USSR, Eastern Europe and Scandinavia after Summer 1941). MI4: Geographical section — maps (transferred to Military Operations in April 1940). MI5: Liaison with Security Service, following the transfer of Security Service to the Home Office in the 1920s. MI6: Liaison with Secret Intelligence Service and Foreign Office. MI7: Press and propaganda (transferred to Ministry of Information in May 1940). MI8: Signals interception and communications security. MI9: Escaped British PoW debriefing, escape and evasion (also: enemy PoW interrogation until 1941). MI10: Technical Intelligence worldwide. MI11: Military Security. MI12: Liaison with censorship organisations in Ministry of Information, military censorship. MI13: Not used (except in fiction). MI14: Germany and German-occupied territories (aerial photography until Spring 1943). MI15: Aerial photography. In the Spring of 1943, aerial photography moved to the Air Ministry and MI15 became air defence intelligence. MI16: Scientific Intelligence (formed 1945). MI17: Secretariat for Director of Military Intelligence from April 1943. MI18: Used only in fiction. MI19: Enemy PoW interrogation (formed from MI9 in December 1941).
Chris Meadow, Middleton, US

M15 is a secret Intelligent unit primarily deals with internal affairs but terrorists unusually and The Great MI6 deals with foreign affairs which has to do with the UK or not. M07 become MI7 in 1916 after the War.Which is responsible for information and press or propaganda. MI8 is the Radio Security Service (RSS).MI4 now the JARIC agency. In short you can be made to believe that MI1-M14 still exist after the second world war.
Kwame Akonnor, Sakyikrom-Nsawam, Ghana

NCIS stands for NAVAL Criminal Intelligence Service. The word is not "national."
Carole Parkinson, Portland United States

Firstly, NCIS does not refer to US Naval version it's referred to the UK National Criminal Investigative Service now known as SOCA (Serious Organized Crime Agency) this agency took over most of the MI5 responsibilities leaving matter of counter-intelligence and foreign diplomatic services up to MI6 which really no longer exist as an agency only unto itself. It may have a website etc, but any MI (Military Intelligence) office is overseen by the Foreign Secretary. Years ago the "operatives" used in Clandestine Services were reassigned and renamed under Her Majesty's Customs and Excise via Home Office. MI5 Secret Service is domestic only. Handles British territories with some travel. Most of the foreign embassies in the world have Diplomatic Protection Officers in them. Ian Flemming's Bond is loosely based on the association of these two agencies but they are not related and quite honestly MI5 is nothing more than an Interpol type office conducting mostly anti-terrorism operations where as SOCA is chiefly responsible for national investigations and policing. It can be argued because there is not substantial information available to the general public as to what or how each foreign service office or officer are assigned or their duties. As to what has happened to the other MI's they have been re-titled UKSF and INTCORP or ICA Intelligence Corp Association.
P. M. Skellen, Herefordshire United Kingdom

All I can say is Thank God for the United Kingdom, the english language the principals of law and the rich heritage we have recieved from them. God bless all of our english speaking cousins around the world. Thank you.
Robin L. Garces, Newberg Oregon, USA

Pretty much MI5 and MI6 have absolved all the other sections MI's activities. MI5 works closely with the Police as well in the UK. Now my next question is... What does MI6 do in this peace time activities. I have heard what the CIA is doing? MI6 is very secretive and am pretty sure that their actions are passive rather than active. Is there a secret hatchet unit that's unsanctioned by the British Government known as Section 20? Basically under the CIA, this is called Blake Ops. If there is one, then Sec 20 is the creme de la creme of international law enforcement.
Dominic W S Chan, Shah Alam Malaysia

I believe that the closest to MI5 is the US Department of Homeland Security
Harold Basa,

Contrary to John London's post, the FBI, like the CIA, is a member of the US Intelligence Community.
Carson, Virginia US

My dad worked for MI8 at one point just after the war. It involved sitting in the back of a army waggon listening to Russian morse and transcribing it. He had no Russian language translation skills, that duty belonged to someone else. Not the most glamorous of jobs, but at least it sounded good....
Nik, Leigh UK

In response to what the American NCIS stands for, it's not NATIONAL, but Naval Criminal Investigative Service. I believe the UK one is National. And I'm also watching MI-5, know in the UK as Spooks. I wanted to get a handle on the different intelligence agencies. To my understanding, MI-5 deals with domestic intelligence, but not equivalent to our FBI because of their clandestine nature (I would say equivalent to the NSA). And MI-6 is international intelligence, like the CIA. So can anyone elaborate more on GCHQ? Or what their American equivalent would be if there is one?
Ike, San Diego, California USA

A big thank you for your post. Want more.
forum profiles, NY USA

During the second world war, GCHQ was the organization that handled the decryption of German encrypted radio communications based on sophisticated mathematical techniques supplied by great minds such as Alan Turing and an Enigma machine supplied by a Polish soldier who escaped to England. The letters stood, I think, for Government Communication Headquarters. It probably still deals with codes and cyphers, something like our NSA. GCHQ has a famous site at Cheltenham, I think.
Thomas, Stoneham, US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Directorate_of_Military_Intelligence Should you be allowed to ask a question on Notes and Queries if it has its own Wikipedia page?
Andy Buch, Brighton, UK

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What Does M Stand for in M16

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-20949,00.html

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What Does M Stand for in M16

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